Interview with Julian Clary, who stars as Norman, and Matthew Kelly, who stars as ‘Sir’, in The Dresser at the Everyman Theatre, Cheltenham from 21st to 25th September. 

For people who are new to The Dresser, how would you describe your respective characters?

Matthew: ‘Sir’ is part of a touring Shakespearean company in 1942 and the play is based on a real actor called Sir Donald Wolfit. He spent most of his life touring the provinces and taking Shakespeare to the nation, which he really believed in. He was an old-school barnstorming actor and they’d do Othello one afternoon, Richard III in the evening, then King Lear the next day. With ‘Sir’ in the play, we’re seeing him at the end of his career. He’s a knackered old has-been. 

Julian: Ronald Harwood, who wrote the play, was Sir Donald Wolfit’s dresser for a while. In the play the dresser is called Norman and he is quite a complex character. He is the dresser for ‘Sir’, so he’s in a servile position but he’s also very bright and thinks he’s running the ship in a way, as dressers often do. They chivvy everything along but they don’t have obvious authority, it’s more subtle.

Matthew: Norman is the one who holds ‘Sir’ together and actually holds everybody together, with the maxim of ‘The show must go on’. The play is really about Norman. It’s about the unsung, little people.

Can you relate to Norman and ‘Sir’ in any way?

Julian: I can, yes. There’s very few parts I could play because I’m not really an actor. I couldn’t do Coriolanus this week, for example. With Norman it’s the delivery, the humour and the waspishness of him that appeals as well as the vulnerability.

Matthew: Can I relate to ‘Sir’? Oh God, yeah. Never knowingly underacted! ‘Sir’ is a great big show-off really and I can relate to that, but I don’t have his ego. The difference between me and ‘Sir’ is that I’m all for a team event where everybody serves everybody else, whereas ‘Sir’ believes that everybody serves him.

They are considered two of the best parts in theatre. Were they always on your wish list to play?

Matthew: Do you have a wish list? I don’t.

Julian: No. You get what you’re given!

Matthew: Also I can’t see myself playing anything until I get the part, then I think ‘Well, they obviously think I can do it so there must be something in that’.

Julian: Most of my life is spent making up my own act and talking about myself, which is why it’s a nice change to inhabit someone else. And I like the feeling of taking on something I might not be able to do. I like the fear.

Ronald Harwood’s play is revered as a classic. Why do you think that is?

Julian: With ‘Sir’, some of his speeches demystify the whole business of acting. He’s terribly eloquent about what acting is and why you do it.

Matthew: Very often plays about actors make us look like awful people who are very loud and ought to be slapped, but The Dresser gives you an eloquent insight into them.

Julian: It’s such a well-crafted play. You keep finding subtexts in Ronald’s writing and thinking ‘Blimey, that’s clever of him’.

Matthew: It’s got a great rhythm to it and you get such an insight into most of the people in the company, even though some of them only have two scenes. You see where everybody is in the hierarchy.

Julian: And it’s written with great love, I think. Apart from the technical skill of it, you get a real sense of how much he loved that world.

Although it premiered in 1980, does it feel timely now?

Julian: There are lots of timely things about it. For example, there’s a war going on in the play and the whole COVID thing is like a war but without any bombs.

Matthew: I feel like a bit of a fraud because people have gone through terrible things and I’ve had a lovely time. I loved lockdown.

Julian: I liked the whole slowing down, although I might have hated it if I didn’t have two books to write. That gave me a creative outlet. And I fell into a nice routine with the dogs, cooking my husband’s dinner and going to bed early. But then I’m 62 and I’m sure if you were 18 it was tragic.

Matthew: I watched Netflix from end to end. I hate shopping so it was nice not doing that. I’ve spent 54 years on the road so to be forced to sit back, do nothing and contemplate life was thrilling for me.

How is it being back at work on a play?

Matthew: Tiring!

Julian: We did twice-weekly Zoom sessions for three months but it was a shock to my system when we started in-person rehearsals. I’m an absolute wet rag by the time I get home. No vim and vigour from me!

When were you last on stage?

Matthew: In November I was asked to do a Peter Barnes monologue for streaming from the Theatre Royal, Windsor, and when I got there I realised how much I’d missed the stage and how thrilling it was to be back. It was a miserable November day, there was nobody in the audience and only four people on stage, myself included, all wearing masks and social distancing – and it was fantastic, exciting and lovely to be back, even under those circumstances.

Julian: I did six weeks of cabaret last June and July and it was great. You think ‘I wonder if I can remember what to do’ but it took me about 30 seconds to be in my element. I’ve been hosting cabaret shows in London this year and it’s so lovely to be back in front of audiences.

Matthew: I always feel at home on stage, even if I’m not always quite sure what I’m doing!

You’ve both worked extensively in theatre. What have been your highlights?

Matthew: It’s always what I’m doing right now. Always.

Julian: I do like the London Palladium so I’ve loved everything I do there, from my own shows to the pantos I’ve done at the Palladium the last few years. Then the thing that led me to doing The Dresser was that I did a play called Le Grand Mort at the Trafalgar Studios in 2017 and that whetted my appetite for more acting.

You have a great rapport. Have you met before?

Matthew: We’ve met before but we’ve never worked together before. But we spent all that time on Zoom, two hours twice a week for three months, so we’ve built up that rapport.

Do you enjoy touring?

Julian: I don’t like the thought of it but the reality is that it’s so rewarding. I love the time on stage and the creative experience, and I’ve done so much of it that I feel I know the country like the back of my hand.

Matthew: I absolutely dread it before a tour begins, the thought of being away from home for so long, but when you do it it’s fantastic. The reason for that is that you’re with people who become like your family. You become incredibly close and it’s a lark.